- I got an email last night that said Mattel had extended all the subscriptions another week to August 22. It’s hard to know whether this is primarily to give the DC subscription a better chance or because all the subs aren’t getting the numbers they want. I still think the DC sub is screwed–the minimum number just seems to be too high–but this week I was considering subscribing until I found out that, because I already subscribed to Club Eternia and didn’t subscribe to both at the same time, I’d have to pay double shipping by adding a second subscription (“Remember, you can buy as many subscriptions as you like in any combination and they’ll all ship together when purchased in the same transaction!”). I’m sorry, but I am not paying double shipping. If Mattel wants to encourage fans to buy Club Infinite Earths, they should kick Digital River’s sorry ass and make them combine the shipping for the damned subs even if they’re ordered separately. Anything less is dumbfoundingly stupid. Period.
- Mattel also posted more information on the future of the 6″ DC figures aside from Club Infinite Earths. The money quote, in my opinion: Yes DC 6†will continue at retail in 2012 but their will be a lot of changes. Collect and Connect and the Wave strategy will be gone. The focus will be on much more mainstream and kid/mom friendly mixes/characters. This is WHY we created the club, to give a home to those team builders, C and D list characters and fan demanded variants who may no longer be showing up at retail in 2012. It seems fan speculation is correct–the 6″ DC line will look like the Millennium MOTU line of the early 2000s, with tons of Superman and Batman guises. Before you start collecting kindling for Mattel’s auto-da-fé, keep in mind this is very likely being pushed by Warner Bros./DC, who are overtly trying to court a younger audience with their “Brand New DC” relaunch next month. Get the kids hooked early and all that. When will the two big comic companies stop pining for the days when Captain Marvel sold a million copies a month? That was in the 1940s, people. There were few televisions and no videogames or heck, even action figures then. Those days aren’t coming back.
- Blogger, Poester and sometime PGPoA contributor Novelty wants to know: “What if MOTUC cherry pickers switched to the subscriptions instead?”
- Figureoftheday.com is having an Alien/Predator event all day today. Might be worth checking out.
- Angels preserve us, could the second G.I. Joe movie actually not suck?
- You may remember MasterEnglish, whom I commissioned to make my 339/1 custom. I’ve just commissioned a second custom, which will be (if all goes according to plan) revealed not here, but at Power-Con first.
misterbigbo
Two points: that thread of Novelty’s on the .Org is the most frustrating thing I’ve read or participated in in a long time. Both sides simply cannot appreciate the other. Let it lie.
Second, whatever happened to the MOTUC custom of YOU?
Poe Ghostal
An endless argument on an Internet forum? Say it ain't so!
The inability to appreciate another's perspective seems to have become endemic to almost every aspect of American society. Not sure what role the Internet has had in that vs. the rest of the mass media, but it definitely deserves a good portion of the blame.
That said, people who don't feel strongly about the issue, or are willing to compromise, aren't going to be the ones to post and argue about it.
Actually there's been an update on that.
misterbigbo
I'm not so naive to be surprised about internet arguments as that, but I dally in them so infrequently that when I do I am inevitably disappointed. In the facts that people don't read what others write but just spout off, that people are so bad at writing and proofreading that they offend others needlessly, that the internet tuff-guy routine empowers douche-nozzles to write things they wouldn't have the stones to say in person, and all the rest of the classic complaints.
What bugs me is that Mattel is dividing people up economically. A lesson I learned the hard way is never to do business with friends, because money will always embitter relationships. Dammitall I won't even play Monopoly with people I love anymore. Super MOTUC fans feel like cherry pickers are stealing from them; through the lack of commitment from the latter Matty will kill teh lien. Cherry pickers feel like the super fans are extorting them, stealing money they don't want to spend so others can have obscure figures.
But in the end, it's Matty that's doing both, and pitting the fans against each other will finish this line. Casual fans like me will leave the forums rather than be denigrated for lacking the desire to shell out nearly $600 for what might be $200 in wanted product. With less exposure comes diminished interest, and so it goes. The best case scenario for this year will be fewer subs, more WSOD, 10 minute sell-outs, more fan angst, all of which Mattel will interpret as positive, and will prompt greater sub sales next year, if there is a next year. I honestly think we'll see the same ticker next August for MOTUC that DCUC fans got this year.
And it's good to see that the custom is moving along.
noveltynostalgia
I didn't realise what I'll actually start by starting the thread. The premise of the thread wasn't so much about Twitter campaigns, misogyny or the whole gamut of cherry pickers vs sub-holders. Sheesh. I was just asking what if people who buy 8 – 10 figures a year – those people – what if they upgraded to a sub instead. Sure, they'll pay an extra $50 or whatever it is, but if there are enough of those people, we might get a Castle Grayskull? But the few on-topic posts in that thread has pointed out the folly in my premise… which is cool with me.
Also, Matty has apparently confirmed in their forums that the MotUC sub has exceeded the minimum numbers to "turn on the machines".
Newton Gimmick
Personally I think Mattel should offer two subs. A MOTU sub, the includes ONLY core MOTU characters that either had a figure or appeared in the cartoon…
And a sub with "everything"… And I bet you dollars to donuts that the MOTU sub would be subscribed by most of your cherry pickers. While the "everything" sub would be subscribed by a much smaller faction.
Fact is, a lot of people don't want the green monkeys, the Star Powers Bubble Blowing Strawberry Shortcake Sisters or some MOTU character that was a sketch on a napkin and never made it past that point.
However Mattel will never do that, because if you split up the subs, you won't get enough people buying the figures. Mattel clearly wants EVERYONE in on the sub, but that won't ever happen. Especially when Mattel doesn't announce the characters and makes it known that they're going to include a lot of stuff that many people simply don't want.
It's a no win situation, IMO.
Monkey boy
Mattel not giving a crap about how it treats its fanbase? No freaking way!
Y’know I’ve always been quick to bash Mattel but I still liked their product, just not the way they handle distribution or bitchslap their own customers at seemingly every opportunity. But after the more recent events, I’m flat out done with ’em. No more batvillains, no more even buying MOTUC secondhand from amazon. Heck, no hot wheels. And my life just got so much easier.
RageTreb
Well goddammit. The second extension is both good news and bad news for me. Good news because I get paid again on the 17th, but bad because like you, Poe, I also already have another subscription and I don't know I can slide two shipping fees.
Although, it's worth pointing out that if you sincerely believe it won't get off the ground anyway, why not sign up? Surely Mattel will refund you if they don't go through with it, and 32% is still better than 30%.
I think I might actually do it. We'll see.
Newton Gimmick
Extending the sub was great for me, because I haven't ordered any subs yet and money was a little tight. Now I might actually pick a few up.
Rustin Parr
auto-da-fé? whats an auto-da-fé?
It's what you oughtn't to do, but do anyway!
there was never any doubt of me getting the DC sub, and indeed i did, but i've become increasingly more impassioned about the club after reading/hearing more arguments like the above mentioned 'return to DCSH days of hell' – but if they can't/won't/don't combine shipping on separately placed sub orders they could extend registration for a year and never hit quota. THAT'S whats going to kill them and the line.
Poe Ghostal
I honestly thing what's going to "kill them" is that clearly, for whatever reason, the minimum number required for the DC sub is just too high. It's not even to 40% yet. I have a hard time believing that any amount of cheerleading or publicity is going to get them the minimum they need. I have a hard time believing that if every fence-sitter signed up right now, they'd crack even 70%.
Someone didn't do the due diligence on the market research needed to gauge whether they could do a DC sub. That's the beginning and end of this, in my opinion.
Nicholai
I too still don't think Club Infinite Earths has much of a chance. Perhaps they'll reveal another character or, even better, one of the over-sized ones. I still think they should get Fangirl out there for a few promotional interviews with sites like Newsarama, IGN, and ComicsAlliance.
I was on the MOTUC sub the first year, but have since bailed. I was always in it for the new versions of old childhood favorites and characters I have nostalgia for from the cartoon. These other characters just don't hold any interest for me. I don't see any value or display potential with characters like Tytus or that other oversized guy. I collect statues/figures almost always because I love the property and the characters they are based on.
americanhyena
That’s just ass-backwards logic on their part. “We’re glad you got our other three subscriptions, but you should really get the DC one too. By the way, you’ll have to pay a totally different shipping charge on it.”
The Flash III
Mattel also said in the statement Poe referenced above that the DC Sub was put together before SDCC "VERY QUICKLY" (their all caps, not mine). Ya think, Matty? Is that why this has been so laughably screwed up. At this point though, word is out on Facebook, Twitter, and the action figure sites, so I don't know where else to find subscribers. Any ideas? Like a couple of people above, I've become an empassioned DC sub believer–we actually have a chance to save a toy line, which could save others in the future. Then I look at the thermometer and my soul dies a little more.
The Flash III
I was considering a 2nd sub myself, but not at double shipping.
I'm sure a lot of you have heard this, but this pod with AFI and the fellows from Spy Monkey Creations is about the best argument for the sub that can be made:
http://www.actionfigureinsider.com/main/case-for-…
nerdbot
Okay, I listened to it. If that's the best argument that can be made for the DC sub, then I'm feeling pretty comfortable with my decision to not order it. I would like to see the line continue – particularly if it would allow me to complete some teams. But I'm simply not willing to go all-in on a sub and pay a good bit more per figure to extend the life of a line I was already starting to cherry-pick.
Heli
Regarding the double shipping deal, couldn't you just cancel whatever sub you have now and then do a new order with your existing sub and the DC one?
Oh, wait. I forgot that they don't allow you to cancel sub orders.
What a bunch of idiots.
dayraven
i look at it like this: it's my money. if mattel wants it, they need to earn it. i refuse to bow to peer pressure in any form, and being a firm lover of spite, i'm inclined to tell those who want to coerce my loyalty that not only won't i go along w/ their plan, that i will work to undermine them because they had the gall to assume some leverage over my wallet.
but back to mattel, seeing what they've given us at 40 bucks, vs what the horsemen have given us for 30, and what NECA gives us between 15 and 50, there's just no way in hell that mattel is working hard enough to earn my money. nostalgia only gets them so far, then i need to love the stuff i'm getting, and in the last year, i'm less and less enthused on what i'm getting. wake me up when square enix gets the motu license for play arts kai… THAT'S a line i could get behind 100%.
Sallah
Not sure if you've seen this yet, but it's pretty much confirmed that the extension is just for the benefit of the sagging DC sub. Here's Toy Guru's reply to a question from the Matty forums as to why they won't reveal more DCUC to help the sub sales:
"It is not a matter of considering it. We don't have character selection or sculpt approval for any further figures from our partners at WB and DC. At this point we physically do not have any more figures to reveal. I understand it is a bit of a leap of faith, but so was the GB and MOTU sub and both of those have hit more then the min we needed. Only DC fans seem to be the hold out."
Sounds like GB and MOTUC hit more than they needed.
Poe Ghostal
I'm kind of surprised–no wait, I'm quite surprised the Ghostbusters sub does that well. The licensing costs must be cheaper.
Hey Warner Bros/DC: lower the cost of your license, thereby making the toys cheaper and more accessible, and maybe you'll get that new generation of fans you're working so hard for in your comics.
Mysterious Stranger
I don't think the licensing fee is the biggest issue. They are only producing about 1/3 of the figures that MOTUC and DCUC put out in a year so the investment in production budget and tooling dollars isn't as high. When you look at the 7 GB figures they make in a year compared to the 20+ they make for MOTUC it makes a big difference in what is considered an acceptable number of subs. The investment isn't as high so the required income isn't as high.
Rich
This license seems strange to me.
We know that when Mattel acquired the “Master License” to DC Characters, they were free to create Barbies, DCU, JLU, Hot Wheels, you name it with DC characters’ likenesses all over them.
Now, as the owner of the property, DC/Warner has the right to say “no, that sneering Batman with blood dripping from his mouth and fists sends the wrong message to parents – we’re going to stop you from hurting our brand on this one”. That’s all fine and good.
I don’t understand, however, how DC/Warner can say “You can only make DCnU likenesses now”. Basically: approval? That seems fair. Veto power? Well, no. Mattel has to be an independent company, and in the interests of being profitable, they should be able to say “You know what DC/Warner? Thanks for the suggestion to use your new character designs, but we don’t see the profit in it. We’ll mix some in when it’s appropriate, but we want to keep doing what we’ve done well for 20 waves. If you want control of character selection, we can talk about that when we re-negotiate the license in 2012”.
If that’s already in the master license… well, that wasn’t very smart business. “We, the property owner, employ a bald lunatic (no not Lex Luthor, but his name is also alliterative!) to head up our creative decision, and you, the license owner, shall be subject to his publishing whims.”
I wonder if DC/Warner has any other new rules for the other Mattel lines? “You can only make the DCnU Batmobile in your hotwheels line from now on.”; “Young Justice episode 13 will feature the team in stealth uniforms only, so your next assortment has to feature stealth uniforms and nothing else”; “We no longer employ women in creative positions at DC Comics, so we won’t be allowing you to dress up any Barbies to sell to girls anymore.”; …?
Is “restructure your adult-collector line to remove any classic characters from future mixes” stranger than any of the above? I’d really like to see this contract. It doesn’t make sense to do business this way.
stack32
"Only DC fans seem to be the hold out." I'm amazed at how everyone speaking on Mattel's behalf manages to choose just the right words to annoy or enrage more people. You'd think they could say something that would help their cause just by accident at least once.
MegaGearMax
That was great news for MOTUC, Voltron and Ghostbuster fans.
stack32
Sure, but as far as we knew they weren't in any danger of having the subs not go through. DC is the sub that's still in question, and TG decides to take a shot at DC fans by implying they aren't as committed as the others? Maybe it's true, but I don't think it's helping them sell subs to put it that way.
The Flash III
Agreed…the others were going ahead no questions asked. It makes me wonder if anyone at Mattycollector has ever read about marketing or building customer loyalty.
Billy Brown
I'm still debating joining Club Infinite Earths but it's hard to warrant paying $25 a month when I'm not sure what to expect. I don't really understand how they can warrant almost $10 worth of shipping for an action figure that costs $15. I would like to get the ones that they've announced so far but I'm still just not sure since the first one won't ship until April and a lot could change between then and now. I still have a few days to decide so we shall see.
Griffin
If you call them you can cancel and then reorder you can combine on shipping. Xavion over on the mess says he did it no problem.
http://www.criticalmess.net/index.php?topic=15006…
Poe Ghostal
Ugh. That feels like an awful lot of work I don't want or should need to do. But maybe I'll do it next week.
Griffin
Agreed it should just be automatic, but at least it's possible, which is more than we thought. Heck, it should work like Bigbadtoystore and let us pile up stuff in our account so we can ship whenever we want.
Pete
More stores should work like BBTS, period.
toyman
I have both a MOTUC sub and the Ghostbusters one too and I'm glad I do because I haven't really been dissapointed yet. I'm just not that picky I guess and the nostalgia value outweighs ALMOST any problem for me.
Now, that being said, I UNDERSTAND COMPLETELY why some people don't get subs. Agreeing to pay money for unseen product, no cancellation, potential QC issues, etc. It's why I did not sign up for Club Infinite Earths. I've always loved GB and MOTU so I can cope with the problems of a sub, but DC is just too much of a crapshoot for me. I've been a cherry picker on that line since day one.
I don't have the hatred for Mattel that many fans seem to have lately but they definitely make some bad decisions and this DC sub quota is the latest entry. Just like every other modern company, Mattel needs to worry less about lining their pockets and start making the fans happy. If people are happy and buying product, the money will come.
Money-grubbing aside, I would hand them $300 in a heartbeat for a Castle Grayskull, as long as it was
toyman
*as long as it was done right
Tribsaint
I too have listened to the cheerleading podcast that Flash III posted, and that’s the best argument for the DCUC sub? WOW…guess they weren’t in debate or they were brain washed by that George Michaels song. Come on guys show Mattel we care and these lines are important, Vote with your dollars….WTF was I doing the past 17 waves…I have at least 200 Mattel DCUC figures….I voted. What I will not vote for is a Sub, Don’t like them. Can I afford it? sure, I could. But it’s a line at a higher price and lesser value. Plus, I hate this we don’t want to have to buy “Kids” line we want “Collector” line crap. I’ll tell you something the vast majority of us were turned on to this by a KIDS line. So, if we regress to kids lines a bit great because some of the finds that made me the happiest were when action figure only came from kids lines….in my opinion we, have been and always will be guests in toy aisles, and I’m fine with that.
Zach S.
I know we're talking about toys here, but it feels to me like there's a larger social issue behind this than most people are realizing. Blind loyalty to a corporation (that has never shown it's customers loyalty, or much respect for that matter) doesn't seem like a good thing. I'm totally not an anti-establishment or fight-the-system guy, but I prefer to stay wary of and keep my distance from giant corporations, maintaining a superficial relationship where possible. I'll buy the toys I want, when I want them…I won't throw them my money at them out of faith. While the toy subs seem pretty harmless, I just can't do it out of principle. Maybe I'm thinking too hard, but something doesn't feel right about all this. I never get the feeling that the relationship is mutually beneficial, or that we really are valued as customers…and that total lack of power, perceived or not, is a little unsettling to me.
Tribsaint
Well, said. I have much the same feeling.I think given the choice Mattel would (and seems to be pushing for it) sell a lot of it's rodents as subs. I ask why, and find the "giving us what we want" talk hard to buy. Especiall,when Mattel has done such a bad job with us.
Bigbot
I would never get a MotU sub. I couldn't care less for PoP, NA, and most of the vintage figures. I'll get the Millenium based figures, and others that just look awesome (Vikor, Battleground Teela, upcoming Draego-Man, Demo-Man). I know that if I'd get the sub, over half the figures would be ones I don't care for.
As far as the DCUC subscription, it'll fail before it starts, and life will go on. Maybe after DC's gamble with the reboot is a failure they can bring DCUC back similar to what Hasbro is doing with Marvel Legends. Restart with a clearer sense of how to promote the line.
RageTreb
Most people are looking at this the wrong way. DCUC as we know it is dead either way. This isn't Mattel holding a gun to DCUC's head and demanding money, it's Mattel rushing DCUC to the hospital and asking for some money to pay for the necessary surgery.
A.J.
Except a lot of people aren't in it to "save the line", or they think the factors involved are unsatisfactory.
Nik
I think the biggest issue with low DC subs (besides everything else mentioned) is that the DC universe is just too big.
I am a huge GB fan. Two movies? I want everyone they can make. I can easily look at the cast of characters completely and see what % I may want to buy assuming they could all be in the sub.
While MOTU is getting larger you can still look back to the old toyline and decide how liked you would be to want to pay for any set of random characters.
DC is just too big. I could be the biggest batman fan. Or even JL fan. And hate 70% of what mattel could potentially put out. Without a hard list it’s almost impossible to commit to. This sub is only for already established DCUC completists. If There was only 1 figure you passed on so far, why? Could the sub randomly be 90% characters you would pass On for the same reason. It’s possible. You could be the biggest DC fan but can you walk into a comic shop pick up a random DC issue and be 100% sure you would find it worth the cover price?
Kid Nicky
I'm not an every Wed. guy,but I am pretty comics-aware,I get the trade paperbacks of the big "events",watch the movies,cartoons,etc. If you pull 9 random people of the street,I'm a bigger comic book fan than all of them.
There have been TONS of DCUC figure who I did not recognise at all,and many more,like Starman,who I sort of recognised but do not care about. Then you've got guys like Toyman who I like,but not 15 bucks like,especially in the yellow jester costume.
Basically I'm interested in like 2 guys in every wave,and when you factor in that they cost 15-20 bucks a pop for a poor quality figure,I usually pass.
This isn't like an X-Men or Dragon Ball or Godzilla sub where I'd be reasonably sure I would like every figure.
Tribsaint
These are Reponses I had it items 1 and 3 of Matt’s big “help clear the air on a lot of confusion” post. I thought they where somewhat applicable to this discussion (the original post is on Noisy opine of the sub that poe posted earlier).
“1: First off. Yes DC 6” will continue at retail in 2012 but their will be a lot of changes. Collect and Connect and the Wave strategy will be gone. The focus will be on much more mainstream and kid/mom friendly mixes/characters. This is WHY we created the club, to give a home to those team builders, C and D list characters and fan demanded variants who may no longer be showing up at retail in 2012.”
Tribsaint
Ok, I see the answer as a problem. First off who do they consider C& D listers because I (for the most part) don’t care about C&D listers without specifics. Because when they don’t give details I envision month after month of Omacs. C&D lister are C&D because in most cases they suck, so Mattel is literally saying we want to keep producing the worst the DC universe has to offer. That’s a little tongue and cheek but only a little.
Plus, their wording “may no longer show up” also means these might show up at retail (care to roll the dice?).
Tribsaint
“3: To clarify on character selection, as most fans have speculated, there will not be any repaints or rehashes in the online club. The whole point of the online Club Infinite Earth is to keep delivering the fan demanded figures you want in 6”Four Horsemen scale. Because the retail line is going a bit more mainstream, this online club IS the avenue going forward for fans to get the team builders, females, aliens and obscure characters they want. While we can’t reveal all the details for the line up, as a reference, just check out Club Eternia. MOTU fans have enjoyed a steady stream of fan requests, deliberate team building and never before made figures. This is the same basic strategy and approach we will be taking with the DC Club Infinite Earth sub. We know we don’t have all the details yet, but our strategy is the same. Definately a trust request here from Mattel to the fan base, but we are comitted to deliver on that!”
Tribsaint
Throughout these answers they really play up the Four Horseman name. Which I could be wrong but seem kind of like them like Mattle saying “you hate us but you love the Horseman, so don’t want to support them”? Basically holding the Four Horseman hostage.
Listen Motu isn’t the DC universe they are completely different. First off Motu including She-ra has around 150 characters give or take. In just the A’s of the DC universe there are 1400 characters give or take (numbers from character lists on wikis). That means that it is entirely possible for 1 toy line to end up producing every single MOTU character, and limits the possibility of a middler or dud. With such a low number of characters the duds and middlers should be in somewhat highly demanded.
Tribsaint
But with DCU having a vast array of characters, selection is much much more nuanced, and more difficult. Do I think fan requests, will be considered of course, but where is Ram man? The shear vastness means fan request will vary greatly. There is just too much room to maneuver, not to have an almost complete line up, or at least some very firm idea of where selections are going to come from and how the decision is going to be made
And Matty asking us to “trust” them is a joke, frankly most of us don’t, and the sub roll out has not help to sure up that trust. There were period of time (this just my opinion)when Toybiz, Todd, and Neca could do no wrong, if they had asked for a blank check with the promise of great toys, I would have give them 2 and sat patiently by the mailbox, Mattel has never enjoyed that kind of fanbase (much of that is their own doing).
Sorry so long